Frustrating ~syscourse~

[malibunny]

We hate to bring up Tumblr "syscourse" on here, because it's terrible and negative, but we're so annoyed with it and we don't want to actually post about it on Tumblr for fear of attracting drama/gatekeepers, so we'll just rant about it on here a little bit.


Ok, I'm sure we're preaching to the choir but...

It bothers us to no end that we keep seeing systems using endogenic as a synonym for "has never experienced trauma" or "basically neurotypical". Endogenic and traumagenic say absolutely nothign about a system's history besides where their system came from, endogenic systems can have experienced anything that traumagenic systems have (though if they haven't that doesn't make them any less real either ofc).

Same goes for assuming that traumagenic means "must have experienced abuse". It's perfectly possible for a traumagenic system to have formed from trauma that is not abuse. We're not saying that it's totally common, but just that nobody should make any assumptions about any system's history based only on whether they identify as endogenic or traumagenic (or neither/both/anything else). I mean, these gatekeepers are also using traumagenic to mean DID/OSDD systems only, also, so there's that, but yeah.

Last thing is all the hate on exotrauma, too. Like, we're fairly sure that the term was created specifically to differentiate from trauma that is not exotrauma to avoid comparing the two directly (which isn't to say that exotrauma can't be extremely hard to deal with, and we know systems for who exotrauma manifests exactly like the trauma that they've experienced in this life). Nobody's saying that exotrauma is exactly the same as trauma from this life, that's why the term was coined ;o; (I think, anyway? If we're wrong tho lemme know). It's not harming survivors to talk about exotrauma straight up. First people were mad because they thought folks who have exotrauma would invade spaces/take resources for people with ""real trauma"" (quotes bc exotrauma is real, not because anyone's trauma is fake), and now that there's a great, separate term for it that allows for differentiation, gatekeepers are like "don't use that word!!"

Ugh it's just so frustrating and pointless. We're glad there isn't drama like that here (at least we haven't seen any!).

Comments

[teamrainbow]

i only heard about the term "exotrauma" recently, but that certainly describes my experiences. honestly i feel bad even talking about how my past life experiences emotionally fucked me up, because it doesn't...feel as valid as experiences from this world? but on the other hand, it...still affects me the same as if it had happened here. it sucks

(side note: is there also such a thing as exo-abuse? or does that fall under exotrauma as well? i don't want to use terms incorrectly)

-turing

[malibunny]

Right, it's such a useful word! It's really nice to have a specific term for it, bc it's definitely valid and a real experience that a lot of system members have (and possibly fictionkin/otherkin? idk if it's a system-only term but i don't see why it couldn't be also for 'kin folks too), it's nice to be able to talk about it, so I'm glad the term has opened up more discussion about it, I just wish the gatekeepers would leave it alone ;o;

I haven't heard the term exo-abuse, I guess it would fall under exotrauma, but I don't see why you couldn't use exo-abuse to be more specific!

- Carson

[thishouse]

thank you for acknowledging another aspect of the "syscourse" that is often understated: trauma does not equal abuse. there is no way to judge one's abuse history based on the words used to describe their genesis.

i saw a post recently that argued that stating that one has DID/OSDD is the equivalent of saying that they were abused. because those people do not believe one can experience plurality outside of a DID/OSDD model, they then argued that they did not require people to disclose their abuse history unless it was to differentiate between DID/OSDD and fake.

as we have seen others say,

- ora

ora disappeared before she finished haha :'-)

anyway, the point it was trying to make is that there's so many people who conveniently ignore real life experiences because they don't want to. they just don't want to. it complicates their claims.

as for the exotrauma junk... god. we don't know more about its beginnings other than what you said, but i think all this junk is a sentiment that's just really frustrating:

they don't care what words we use. they don't want us to exist

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

- thyme

[malibunny]

Agree with all of this V-V. Also idk why it wouldn't be possible to develop DID/OSDD without being abused either, I don't know any specific cases of that bc I'm sure it's almost always abuse but nothing about it specifies that it must be. But also I'm not an expert so -shrug- idk V-V.

Anyway thanks for the reply!

- Carson

[a_varieg8ion]

It's 4am and I should really be trying to sleep. But the etiology of DiD is quickly becoming a special interest, and while I'm too tired to engage with anything else, I can talk about that.

Anyway… part of what makes it hard to talk about the possibility of DID formed by means other than abuse is that… 'abuse' is a very versatile shorthand for a lot of different experiences. There's the obvious stuff, sure, but then the line gets fuzzier. Do you call bullying abuse? It's interpersonal trauma with clear aggressors…

So slowly the umbrella of abuse grows larger.

Part of how the textbook we're reading conceptualizes the formation of DID is that it's the result of someone reaching a breaking point. A sufficiently bad breaking point — defined as an experience so aversive and overpowering that someone can't cope, is overwhelmed, and splits — causes traumagenic plurality, and subsequent breaking points help perpetuate it.

So (assuming that's even close to accurate) it becomes a question of… what things that don't fall under the umbrella of 'abuse' would cause such a state. "Kidnapping.a child to a different country where they're isolated and don't know the language" was my first guess, but that… sounds way worse written out loud than I expected, huh. (Would explain some things, though.) Death in the family, maybe?

I don't know if this is the most useful hypothetical exercise, but it is kinda interesting.

[malibunny]

Thanks for the comment, this is super informative! I can't say much cause I'm a bit out of my depth, but sickness or death in a family was the example I could come up with as to like, a kind of trauma that isn't abuse (bc what you brought up is definitely an issue, bc I think you absolutely could slot things like bullying or kidnapping under abuse if you wanted to, or at least they could be considered similar) that could potentially form a system, DID/OSDD or otherwise.

Anyway, I appreciate y'all's input a lot!

- Carson & Co.

[valerianhouse]

There's so much of that weird "YOUR EXISTENCE IS HARMING SURVIVORS OF X" and it's maddening and baffling in general. They get mad when we talk, then they get mad when we make new words to avoid stepping into their areas.

I've never seen this kind of gatekeeping on dw. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I think a lot of the super vitriolic crowd hasn't crossed to dw bc it's full of us non-gatekeeper types so it wouldn't give them the satisfaction tumblr does? I really don't know.

We're an endogenic system that has experienced trauma from abuse and from something else that wasn't abuse. I'm sure the gatekeepers would either insist that our childhood trauma made us multiple, or that we're just big mean fakers or something /eyeroll

[glitterrainbow]

just wanted to say that we're the ones who coined the word exotrauma!

it was absolutely created to try and /prevent/ people from invading spaces, and to differentiate between what happened here and what didn't.
the concepts of "here" trauma and "there" trauma already existed - there just wasn't a word for "there" trauma. we filled that void.
we've dealt with both trauma here, *and* exotrauma - making it super infuriating when people insist that we're just trying to speak over them with "fake trauma". like... no. our trauma here is /worsened/ by our exotrauma.

not to mention that, to be 'speaking over' them, we'd have to be talking about it in the first place, using their spaces, and refusing to get out... which we don't do. we rarely talk about the details of our exotrauma even in OUR spaces, like our journal here on dreamwidth.
also, how can you "steal resources" if you don't need them? that's my genuine question. if you're using resources, it's because you need them - whether the reason you need them is here, there, or whatever.

this is getting longer than I was anticipating, but yeah.
exotrauma is a word simply meaning "trauma that did not happen in this world/life." we will forever stand by it, because - for a multitude of reasons - it's a useful distinction to make. I don't think they'd take too kindly to "I fought a dragon and wow it left a lot of scars," in their spaces.

of course, syscourse has decided to take this out of proportion, make up lies, and ignore truths, as if our coining of the word means that we think exotrauma is more valid than anything they've gone through... when we've stood up AGAINST that, and make it clear that we won't tolerate it.
on an individual basis, yes, exotrauma can mean more than trauma, or vice versa. but as I said: that's a personal thing to be decided by the individual. anyone making these claims trying to bridge over ALL exotrauma and ALL trauma is either very insensitive, or trying to get everyone's goat, and we don't stand for it.

then again, that doesn't matter to them. as thyme said, they don't care about the words we use, they just don't want us to exist. we coined it specifically to fill the void that they INSISTED get filled, and are now mad that we've filled it. there isn't any winning.
--nava

[malibunny]

OMG!! That's so awesome that y'all coined it! we remember starting to see it in plural spaces and thinking what an awesome term it was and how useful it is :')

But yeah agreed all around, I don't have much to add that we didn't already say in our original post but yeah like.... Syscourse is just so tiring and frustrating ;o; it's nice that it's not like that on Dreamwidth, we feel a lot safer talking about ourselves on here than Tumblr.

Anyway, tysm for coining exotrauma too like it's such a good term and definitely a needed term for the community :3

- Sunny

[glitterrainbow]

We are so glad that people are finding it useful! We're trying not to let the hate get us down - after all... coining separate words is supposedly what they wanted. Now that we've done it, it's a crime?
Nah. That really doesn't sit well with us - it's contradictory, really.

IT IS super tiring and frustrating, my Gods. You do what they want, you get attacked. You don't, you get attacked. There's no winning unless you ~submit~ to them and plead forgiveness, for they were "right all along."
We've heard that Dreamwidth communities can come with their own problems, but overall it is MUCH safer here, and so much less hostile, than Tumblr.

It's no problem! We saw the void and, with how important it is to us, filled it accordingly.
--Tulip